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Discussion Starter #1
Over here in Australia, we have Universla health care. You go to the doctors for free... (everyone who earns over $60,000 approx pays a 1.5 % levy ) Get your script and go get it. At a discount rate. If you need to go to hospital your are covered also, no hidden costs...

Ive been watching with interest on your health care reform.. WHat I cant believe is that you need medical insurance etc.. and if you cant afford it you dont get help... IS THAT RIGHT???

I have trouble understanding why people are apposed to universal health care, when people are sick they NEED help.. Yes it costs a bit of money for the country but thats what the government is for... Yes its a bit socialist ( and Australia and the USA are a bit different on this) I understand that some people in the US are less government less taxes etc. and thats all good. But if the gov can spend all that money on foreign aid, BLack Op's, Wars etc... what about the PEOPLE that are the REAL government, the Citizens....

Alot of the propaganda is by behind the scenes INTEREST groups that pay your politicians to have a certain view... Here in Australia interest groups cannot do that....

I just want to say... We have hade FREE Universal health Care for Genereations now, the sky has not fallen in and the country is not broke...
It works GREAT and helps not only the rich, the sick but THE POOR...

Just my $1 worth... about $1.07 US.. lol... :popcorn:
 

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By law hospitals can not turn patients away for their inability to pay. I am one of those people who believe in less govt, less taxes. The role of the govt is not to take care of the sick. Our forefathers are screaming in their graves right now the way this country is being ran. Wars do cost money.......but it is what govt is for, to protect our citizens. I as a business owner am taxed to death, and am sick of paying for people who don't want to get off their butts to provide for their family. The problem is a lot of Americans have a sense of entitlement. As if they deserve things just because they are an American. If you want things in life, go out and earn it!
 

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Ditto, the government is only supposed to protect us, to create an environment of potential, not to do anything for us.

The US Constitution is not the document everyone seems to think it is. The real truth is that it is a protection of our inherent freedoms, not things provided by government. The Constitution was created to protect the citizens from the government. It spells out in clear details what the government cannot do. It's full of declarations of what is illegal for the government to do, which by default protects our many many freedoms.

FYI, federal taxes are unconstitutional, the 16th amendment was created to temporarily provide additional funds during war. That was also begun as a class warfare, it was only to tax the super rich at that time, at some odd .4% rate IIRC.

The US has the best health care in the world, the quality is unmatched. The free market has created the many innovations which we enjoy, and yes some countries have more lax regulations that have fed innovations better there. We do have a lot of regulation problems, which is also due to government meddling.

No one here does not have health care, as Aaron mentioned anyone can go to any hospital and get treatment. What we do have is over 20 million illegal aliens who broke the law by invading the country. They are a huge burden on the healthcare system.

What is the answer to those people, give them free healthcare(as we are doing now)? No, the answer is to deport them, as the laws existing now dictate. The problem is that the federal government and most states do not enforce the laws we have. If they were enforced, we wouldn't have 20 million new non-Americans here.

The number of people who don't have insurance, and are not illegal aliens or people who choose to not get it, is relatively small. The politicians keep lying by saying 45million etc, the real figure is 9-12 million. That is a manageable figure which would be cheap to handle compared with government health care.

Obama wasted $600 billion to $1.5 trillion on Pelosi's monster of a bill. Somebody tell me, do the math, what would it cost for the government to buy all of those poor people an insurance policy? The typical family spends $2000 to $4000 on their insurance plan, figuring the total cost with no group discounts.

If the government were to start a plan for each of the real 9-12 million uninsured, how much is 12 million times $4000, or $3000 if you logically figure a group discount?

Obama and the Congress have committed us all to government controlled healthcare. They will decide who is eligible to get a treatment, who isn't, which then means who will die when they say no. The initial costs are estimated to be near $1 trillion, and likely much more.

Why isn't it more sensible to spend $36-48 billion dollars a year for an insurance plan for those poor people? Just to keep the damned government out of my life, I'd gladly donate my share of that money to take care of those leeches.

The bottom line is that Obama care has nothing to do with healthcare. It was and will always be about more government control, more taxes, more intrusion into our lives. BTW, the healthcare quality will also get worse. The government will decide what new innovations are too expensive, not worth it, and they will ration healthcare. Get ready to stand in line, wait for an appointment for a treatment, an MRI etc.
 

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Illegals are the biggest problem with our healthcare! My wife is an RN, and I constantly hear about the illegals that come in to the hospital! The more I hear about it, the more frustrated I get. Don, what's your thoughts on the GOP canidates for President? Personally I like Herman Cain......He has the business sense that is needed in Washington. Doesn't look like he will get the nomination though. Really anyone is going to be better than the current President! And I definitely agree, Obama care is about control!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@ DOn and Aaron... Strong views... and thats what's good about a democracy.... everyone has there opinion and valid points to make.... :)

I am surprised by your Less government view.... I dont dissagee at all, just intriqued... Australia was founded on different values, so i guess its no surprise.... ( not sayin ours are better or worse ) just different... We were Englands answer to an overcrowded jail... Send all tha criminals to Oz... hahaa.... Our system is more based on englands, IE parliment etc...

In regards to illegal aliens, it seems you do have a real problem.... ANyone for a fence across the mexican border??? Didnt Bush start something like that?? Im not aware of australia having the same problem... We get 20 people getting on a boat and traveling from indonesia to australia, and the media goes crazy and claims WE are being Invaded!!! lol... But the same here in australia in regards to there being people here before white man came.. ( in regards to my own country ) I see some irony when the citizens claim that we are being invaded after all.. wernt we the original invaders.... But at the end of the day its who wins the war that counts..;. lol....

I agree the free market approach does provide the innovations that are needed that is a great thing.... not trying to argue Don, (not at all ) but inregards to the best healthcare more people die in america due to malpractice then here in australia, its like 10 to 1.. but thats only one statistic... Im sure there are ones where america kicks our arse...

PS... at the end of the day, im just glad we got you yankees to protect my countrys lil arse..... We only have 2 submarines in operation at the moment... But thats another debate... :)
 

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... ANyone for a fence across the mexican border??? Didnt Bush start something like that?? ...





I agree the free market approach does provide the innovations that are needed that is a great thing.... not trying to argue Don, (not at all ) but inregards to the best healthcare more people die in america due to malpractice then here in australia, its like 10 to 1.. but thats only one statistic... Im sure there are ones where america kicks our arse...


...:)


We have had laws(bills) on the books for decades to build a fence or fences(state to state). We also have adequate laws to handle illegal aliens. The AZ state legislature just last year passed their illegal aliens laws to do exactly what the federal laws do that already exist. The problem is that the government does not enforce the laws that we already have. Obama and supporters(plus illegal aliens groups), they all condemned Arizona for creating their law. They don't want the laws enforced, they want the new ignorant voters who will support socialist government changes.


As for comparing nations, using statistics, that is not realistic. In the USA we have countless more freedoms and far more complicated factors that don't exist in other countries.

Take the Mexicans coming in, compared to new real immigrants to Australia. You cannot compare the impact of an unknown massive invasion of people here to the miniscule and very well known immigrants there. You can identify those people there, how smart they are, how healthy, size of family, language spoken, and criminal background. here we have absolutely no clue about any of those statistics about the invaders coming from Mexico. It's like that they are the most uneducated, sickly, criminal, and likely to break all laws type of people. How can any study quantify the affects of such massive numbers of low quality people invading us.

The statistics here will always be skewed regarding healthcare as you mentioned. We have better doctors, facilities, equipment etc, but we also have the worst patients, with far more problems than any country that doesn't have our illegal alien problem.

I welcome the thoughts, I'm not arguing either. I'm relating what little I have learned by listening to the honest media, and that doesn't include the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN etc, media. You have to listen to a bunch of the countless media outlets to figure out which ones are government voting reporters, thus lying about the real truths. You need to ignore those hate spreading redistribution mongers. They simply want to trick everyone into believing that the rich are evil, capitalism(greed) is evil, and government will solve everyone's problems. They do that because they want bigger government, more power(career in politics), and to take more of your money away.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@ Don. Thanks for your comments... Isnt it great when people from different backgrounds and differnet sides of the earth can get together and share their views and opinions, without anyone shooting each other down or throwing abuse at someone because they have a different view... I look forward to another discussion sometime... cheers... :D
 

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I do appreciate your views, and others. I have a friend in Australia that I message with sometimes. He has interesting viewpoints that are uncommon here. It makes me think, and that's good.

Long ago(for us the early 1940's) there were no government taxes(unconstitutional), and the people who went into politics did it entirely for the service to the people, or a little fame(who cares). Since the 16th amendment then, politics here are very bad. They go into it for power and greed, other bad motivations, but rarely just to help people.

So now it's almost assured in the US that anything the government says is for the people, or to help some group, that is a lie. They are motivated by all the wrong reasons, though you don't hear about those in the big media outlets. They do what they do to buy votes, to insure their careers, keep power, grow government, and lastly if they can make it look good, to sound like they do it because they care.

I wish I was wrong, but if I was we wouldn't have had the real estate meltdown(which affected the whole world), or the wild spending since the Reagan era.

Our current government spending is something like 50% more than what it was before the Bush begun tarp bailouts. Most of that new spending is under Obama. So now they are suggesting that they cannot cut $30-50 billion per year. Yet they just increased spending by nearly a trillion dollars per year. Somebody can't do math or handle a budget. I know that it's Obama and the rest of the Congress, but most people don't know how bad they are.

They need to cut spending, not add new taxes. First they need to cut a trillion dollars per year to get back to just where Bush had it, which was still way too high. There is no need for new taxes, ever.

Research the Fair Tax plan, that is a smart federal tax method, and it doesn't promote big government. Regards,
 
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